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    Who are the NERD fund donors Mr Snyder?

    Raise the curtain.

    Why Conservatives Should Choose Giuliani


    By DMOnline, Section News
    Posted on Fri Aug 24, 2007 at 03:50:11 PM EST
    Tags: (all tags)

    The conventional wisdom in political circles early in 2007 was that Mayor Giuliani was only ahead in the polls among likely Republican voters because of name recognition.  Since the 9/11 Terror attacks, there's hardly an American who doesn't know the Mayor's name.  Surely once these same voters got to know Mr. Giuliani's "liberal" stands on abortion, equal protection under the law for gays/lesbians, and strict gun control in New York City, well, surely they would flee to another candidate with pure conservative credentials.  Interestingly enough, that's not happened thus far.  And here's why...

    Republicans, conservatives in particular, are very concerned with keeping the White House in Republican control.  The looming threat of a President Hillary Clinton is enough to keep principled GOP-er's up at night.  Conservatives look at the roster of Republican presidential candidates and they're less-than-satisfied.

    Senator John McCain, the presumed frontrunner as of a few months ago, tanked and tanked badly.  His plummeting support is primarily the result of sticking his finger in President Bush's eye one too many times.  In reality he hates tax cuts, loves illegal immigrants, and wants to control your freedom of speech.  Yes, he is a true blue American hero to whom we owe a debt of gratitude that can never be repaid for his service in Vietnam.  But that service does not entitle him to the keys to the Oval Office.

    Governor Mitt Romney is a fine man, a very successful business man and an okay governor (click here for Romney's real record of success in contrast to that of Mayor Giuliani).  With his shifting principles (pro-abortion now pro-life; pro-gay rights now not so much, etc.) which smells much more like political opportunism, many conservatives are not convinced Romney is the real thing.

    Fred Thompson is a former US Senator of 6 years and little political accomplishment.  Yes, he's a Hollywood actor.  But the comparisons with Ronald Reagan end there.  Mr. Thompson supported McCain/Feingold (which limited your freedom of speech) and his commitment to the pro-life movement is fuzzy at best.  His performance in the coming debates will likely do the most to undermine success.  Mr. Thompson talks in endless cliches and is not a stirring speaker.  Some flash - very little substance.

    The rest of the nominees, save Mayor Giuliani, aren't worth mentioning here.

    That leaves Rudy.  Mr. Giuliani is far and away the single most elect-able candidate we have running.  While his moderate positions on abortion and gay rights may rankle some of the religious right/social conservatives within our party, it actually makes him more pallatable to Reagan Democrats and independent voters.  In addition, Giuliani has pledged to nominate strict constructionists to the courts in the mold of Justice Scalia.  I take him at his word on that promise (there would be hell to pay if he didn't follow through - Harriet Myers ring a bell?).

    The single most important issue of our time is the threat Islamofacists pose to the civilized world.  They are at war with us.  The one candidate that owns that subject is Rudy Giuliani.  He is best equipped to continue our war on terror in the manner it should be fought - and every voter in America knows it.

    If keeping the White House is your highest priority, only Rudy can make that priority a reality.  Mitt can't beat Hillary.  Thompson can't.  McCain can't.  The only viable candidate is Rudy.  Come primary day, hopefully we'll all think with our heads and not exclusively our hearts.

    DMOnline

    < Pappageorge and Palmer introduce legislation to help parents afford back-to-school | Right Michigan would like to thank the House Democrats for their creative budget solution! >


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    Display: Sort:
    Historical Note (none / 0) (#1)
    by Jake Davison on Fri Aug 24, 2007 at 05:56:21 PM EST
    "While his moderate positions on abortion and gay rights may rankle some of the religious right/social conservatives within our party, it actually makes him more pallatable to Reagan Democrats..."

    Reagan Democrats left the Democratic Party BECAUSE of issues such as Dem support for abortion and gay rights (and gun control). These liberal social issues caused Reagan Democrats to ignore their union/white ethnic/Catholic traditional loyalties to the party of FDR (when it became seen as the party of George McGovern and Jimmy Carter and Coleman Young).

    And Thompson was a Senator for 8 years, not 6.

    Davison
    www.draftJohnEngler4Prez.com (just kidding, unfortunately)

    Concession (none / 0) (#2)
    by DMOnline on Fri Aug 24, 2007 at 08:11:00 PM EST
    You're right about Thompson's 8 years.  Forgive me.  I knew it wasn't a full 2 terms, however.

    Times have changed a bit since 1976 and Reagan's first run for the presidency.  Whether social conservatives care to admit it or not, the overall prevailing attitude among the public concerning gays and abortion has moderated significantly.  While many within the GOP may not embrace Mary Cheney, her child, or her partner, most don't want to see her discriminated against either.

    The point is, Giuliani's pledge to appoint strict constructionists to the court means you'll get a Judge Roberts out of him for the Supreme Court but won't get to enjoy watching him throw red meat to the social conservatives pitting straights against gays.  Personally, I don't think that's a bad thing.

    dm

    I'd be interested to see what you base that (none / 0) (#3)
    by Nick on Fri Aug 24, 2007 at 09:15:12 PM EST
    opinion on... that opinions on abortion have "moderated."  

    Public opinion survey after survey after study after study continue to show it's the most polarizing issue in the United States and the lobbies on each side of the issue remain among the most powerful and influential in the nation.  

    Can't wait! (none / 0) (#4)
    by NoviDemocrat on Sat Aug 25, 2007 at 02:38:33 AM EST
    I would love to have Guiliani in the race against any of the Dems. He's got his crook buddies, his string of mistresses and divorces, his failures on 9/11 including locating the city's emergency operations center at the most prominent terrorist target in the city despite being warned not to do so. Plus, he's going to run on the "we need to stay in Iraq forever" platform. With that background, there's no way Democrats won't take the White House and increase their hold on Congress.

    The articile referenced pulls an interesting... (none / 0) (#5)
    by RightMacomb on Sat Aug 25, 2007 at 07:43:44 AM EST
    trick.  While it compares the figures from Guiliani's days as Mayor to Romney's days as Governor, it fails to point out clearly that the time frames are dramatically different.  Guiliani enjoyed for almost all of his years in office a booming economy.  Romney took over as Governor at the beginning of a recession, which is a much harder job and he still managed to grow the economy there, despite the Democratic Legislature.

    You had me until... (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Adam D on Sat Aug 25, 2007 at 03:29:31 PM EST
    "the rest of the nominees [sic], save Mr. Giuliani, aren't worth mentioning"?  

    Did you forget about Ron Paul, or you just don't want to talk about it?

    giuliani would never win the general election (none / 0) (#9)
    by prattleon on Sat Aug 25, 2007 at 04:52:28 PM EST
    what good is a republican if they don't stand for conservative principles?  we should vote on principle not electability.  giuliani may seem electable now, but he is involved in a lot of corruption and if nominated, a lot of it would be surfaced.  he is also campaigning way too closely to bush's policy, which judging by bush's approval ratings, americans do not care for.  

    Just getting started (none / 0) (#10)
    by NoviDemocrat on Sun Aug 26, 2007 at 12:20:10 AM EST
    I don't think Edwards is having people ask him publicly why they should vote for him when his own family won't support his run for President as Guliani is hearing from voters. If you don't think that kind of stuff is going to sink Guliani, you're just deluding yourself.

    I really don't think our best choice (none / 0) (#12)
    by snoopygirlmi on Sun Aug 26, 2007 at 02:50:49 PM EST
    is Rudy.  A lot of conservatives won't suck it up like they did when they voted for Bush.  

    A lot of people held their nose on immigration because Bush was pro-life and really had a sense of where his base was on values.  I can see a lot of these voters going third party or not voting at all - and not volunteering - if the nominee is Rudy.  It will be like Bouchard vs Butler all over again - except they aren't going to pull the level for the Republican in the general.  

    I really don't know who I'd vote for if Rudy was the nominee - however, strong on terror only gets you part of the way with me.  

    I don't expect to agree with the nominee on every single thing, but considering 1) NYC was/is considered a sanctuary city for illegals, 2) Rudy's not know for supporting gun rights/ownership 3) He's not exactly a "pro-lifer" either - as much as he wants to spin it.

    Those are red flags for me.  Judges are important, but looking at his track record I'm not convinced he would represent me and my values very well.  

    I know that we aren't voting for "pastor-in-chief", but why would you vote for a liberal republican when you can vote for the real democrat?  I'm just not interested in voting for a faux conservative.  

    Rudy's a leader in his own right which is really attractive, but again, looking at the issues - he's not my guy.  Shoot - I don't even care that he was married three times because my dad was as well, but it's the package - not just one or two things - that I don't like and rubs me the wrong way.  

    Also, Hillary, wife of the impeached former President Bill Clinton, has a ton of disadvantages and lot of people don't want to spend another 8 years rehashing the Clinton years.  And the idea of Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton is enough to make anyone sick to their stomach.  Even when people talk about Jeb for VP - I just groan and shake my head and think this person must not get out of the house often.

    This idea that none of our candidates can beat Hillary is giving her way too much credit.  She's got a good spin machine, but machines don't vote.  People do.

    Her negatives are high and since people already have strong opinions about her - it's going to be tough for her to change people's minds about her.  

    • well said by prattleon, 08/26/2007 09:31:40 PM EST (none / 0)
    What? (none / 0) (#14)
    by NoviDemocrat on Mon Aug 27, 2007 at 12:16:37 AM EST
    Are you a member of the Michigan Militia? Since when was the Republican base drifting left? They're about as far right as you can get from the "middle" in America (of course, the Democratic left is the same).

    I love the talk about Guliani being "strong on terror". Give one example of where Guliani has held any position where he could demonstrate he's "strong on terror". He's strong on cheap talk but he has zero experience in that area. Good to go with the nominee who lacks the credentials.

    Good point, the Dems should stop talking entirely! (none / 0) (#16)
    by John Galt on Mon Aug 27, 2007 at 08:26:28 AM EST
    I love the talk about Guliani being "strong on terror". Give one example of where Guliani has held any position where he could demonstrate he's "strong on terror". He's strong on cheap talk but he has zero experience in that area. Good to go with the nominee who lacks the credentials.

    Each of the Democrat candidates wants to throw hot air about being strong against terrorism... and yet your quote fits every single Democrat running right now... Obviously, hot air is okay to Democrats.

    This same quote fits John Edwards?  Check.  

    This same quote fits Barack Obama?  Check.  Not a lot of command experience in the Illinois Senate.

    This same quote fits the crook Hillary Clinton?  Check.  Armed Forces committee aside, she's going to play her version of "I voted for the war before I voted against it."  Wishy-Washy with Botox.  And besides, her impeached crook husband was so strong on terrorism, he let Osama bin Ladin get away with 4 acts of terrorism.  Mmm.  Strong!

    This same quote fits Alien Kucinich?  Check.  Is there anything Dennis Kucinich is really qualified to do?

    Who among the Democrats does this not apply to?  Oh yeah, Sgt. Kerry's Purple Heart Club Band.  But he's not running this time.

    And besides, he voted for the war before voting against it... before voting against the funding for the troops, etc. etc.  I guess depending on the day of the week, he would be the "most qualified" Democrat.  And he's not running.


    Wow. Responsive Crowd (none / 0) (#17)
    by DMOnline on Mon Aug 27, 2007 at 09:36:37 AM EST
    I took the weekend off to watch the Tigers lose in person.  Who knew my little post would generate such passionate responses?

    We're not there yet, but by February 6 the question will become, "Will social conservatives turn out in support of their party's nominee on November 4?"

    The real issue is whether we want to keep the White House or not?  You agree with Rudy on at least 80% of the issues and should feel comforted by his pledge to exclusively appoint strict constructionists to the courts.

    You're going to sit out the general election because of righteous indignation?  If you can't have a clone of yourself on the ticket, you're not going to support the candidate closest to your views?  You're going to let an extreme leftist become our Commander in Chief?  You're going to let BILL CLINTON back into the White House for 4 to 8 years?

    If you answered "yes" to any or all of those questions, you need to seek therapy now.

    DMOnline

    First things first... (none / 0) (#18)
    by Nick on Mon Aug 27, 2007 at 09:38:14 AM EST
    Folks are right and encouraged to be passionate about their pick in the Primary.  We'll rally around the banner post-primary.

    prattleon makes some good points (none / 0) (#19)
    by NoviDemocrat on Mon Aug 27, 2007 at 10:17:30 AM EST
    In my view, GWB has been about as complete a disaster of a President as you can get. But he also managed with a Republican Congress to nationalize education policy (No Child Left Behind), massively expand health care costs (Medicare Prescription Drug Benefit), consistently run budget deficits and throw his weight behind immigration policies that most conservatives appear to oppose. As far as I can tell, you got some tax cuts and a couple of Supreme Court justices out of the deal. But on the social issues, over the last 7 years, I would say that your guy hasn't done much besides a lot of window dressing. IF Guliani was elected, you'll get even less than that.

    Reason number one for a "Closed Primary" (none / 0) (#20)
    by Nick on Mon Aug 27, 2007 at 10:21:08 AM EST
    Ahem: Exhibit A -- NoviDemocrat

    Adam D - sic?? (none / 0) (#23)
    by DMOnline on Mon Aug 27, 2007 at 04:21:24 PM EST
    Adam: Thanks for responding but I don't quite understand:

    "the rest of the nominees [sic], save Mr. Giuliani, aren't worth mentioning"?  

    I double checked my dictionary and this is the plural spelling of "nominee".  I'm also fairly certain it was grammatically correct.

    But I could be wrong.  I'm not an English major.

    Please clarify your correction so I can learn from it.

    Thanks.

    DMOnline


    No Child Left Behind - Ug! (none / 0) (#24)
    by DMOnline on Mon Aug 27, 2007 at 04:34:09 PM EST
    Uh, oh.  You just hit yet another nerve - No Child Left Behind - abolish it NOW along with the federal Department of Education.

    That's something you don't hear too many Republicans talking about any more - closing down the Department of Education.  We had a Republican President and controlled House and Senate.  Did one department or liberal program get shut down?  No.  Not even Public Broadcasting.  Good grief!  What's the point of winning elections if you can't implement the most fundamental aspects of good governance?

    The federal government has absolutely NO business sticking its nose into the education system.  No Child Left Behind is a failed government bureaucracy that implements a one-size-fits-all approach that proves or solves nothing.  Kill it now.

    Leave it to the states, localities, parents, and teachers.

    The real problem with our education system is parents who consider their child's school a glorified daycare center.  Until they begin to care enough about their kid's education to demand excellence - both from their children and their school system - public education will continue to be a disaster.

    But that's just my opinion.  I could be wrong.

    dm

    • I agree by prattleon, 08/27/2007 05:27:45 PM EST (none / 0)
    bush getting credit... (none / 0) (#26)
    by John Galt on Mon Aug 27, 2007 at 06:31:24 PM EST
    When something goes well, Democrats want to take the credit.  When something doesn't go well, they give all the credit to the top.

    For example, 1000 new jobs in Michigan - Granholm takes credit for it.  Thousands of jobs leaving because of Delphi, etc. etc... John Engler, GWB, Dick DeVos, Mike Bishop, Craig DeRoche, and Saul Anuzis's faults.

    I think the No-Child-Left-Behind was an example of Bush trying to appease the lefties who always talk of bipartisanship.  And like any form of bipartisanship, it always bites you.  The highway to hell is paved with good intentions.  Bush learned that just a little too late.

    Can't go along with Rudy (none / 0) (#28)
    by Republican Michigander on Mon Aug 27, 2007 at 08:57:40 PM EST
    I can overlook the gay stuff, that isn't a big issue with me. Abortion is another story. Gun grabbing is a flat out deal breaker. He sued gun manufacturers and tried to bankrupt them.

    If there is one issue that has been the achilles' heel over the last 15 years, it's guns. The 2nd Amendment is a big issue to social conservatives, libertarians, and populist Reagan Democrats alike. Nominating someone as hostile as Hillary Clinton on that issue is a recipe for disaster.

    JG loves deficits (none / 0) (#31)
    by NoviDemocrat on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 12:16:18 AM EST
    but I guess they're not "socialist".

    Now compared to Republican Senators (none / 0) (#32)
    by NoviDemocrat on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 01:13:03 AM EST
    Guiliani doesn't look so bad. Vitter and prostitutes, Craig and bathroom sex pickup, Ted Stevens and Lisa Murkowksi for questionable financial activities.

    Wrong (none / 0) (#39)
    by NoviDemocrat on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 11:54:14 AM EST
    Clinton ran surpluses. So I guess it does matter who is President.

    Nice try JG (none / 0) (#46)
    by NoviDemocrat on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 05:08:46 PM EST
    Clinton ran actual surpluses. GWB might give it a try.

    It's amusing... (none / 0) (#48)
    by DMOnline on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 07:41:15 PM EST
    to see the progression of the discussion from the original posting of an opinion piece and all the posts that follow it.  Staying "on topic" isn't our strong suit.  Oh well, it's fun nevertheless.

    DMOnline
    http://both-right.blogspot.com/


    Bush and Republicans (none / 0) (#49)
    by NoviDemocrat on Tue Aug 28, 2007 at 11:32:38 PM EST
    controlled Congress for 4 years. So now what's your excuse?

    Why Bush can't run a surplus (none / 0) (#51)
    by NoviDemocrat on Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 11:51:22 AM EST
    You claimed that Clinton only had surpluses because of a Republican House. Bush had a Republican House. Where's the surpluses?

    So you're saying (none / 0) (#53)
    by NoviDemocrat on Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 01:42:03 PM EST
    That GWB and the Republican House leadership were incapable of generating a surplus?

    Surplus doesn't require a tax cut (none / 0) (#55)
    by NoviDemocrat on Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 03:17:58 PM EST


    Wrong on both counts (none / 0) (#57)
    by NoviDemocrat on Wed Aug 29, 2007 at 10:51:19 PM EST
    That's funny, I remember that Engler didn't give back all of the surplus. He put that into the Rainy Day fund. That is until the end of his term when he drained it trying to cover his deficit spending. You can also take that money and invest it into the state. Many companies do the same thing. Not every dollar in profit is returned to stockholders in dividencs. Some of it is invested back into the company to help boost the value of the company (and the stock) over the long-term.

    I think the comments here (none / 0) (#59)
    by Nick on Thu Aug 30, 2007 at 08:24:59 AM EST
    have run their course.  Best behavior everyone.  :)

    It's impossible (none / 0) (#60)
    by NoviDemocrat on Thu Aug 30, 2007 at 09:51:42 AM EST
    to talk about surpluses and GWB since he never had any. So I was giving you an example from the real world. In any case, to your claim that if the government runs a surplus, it has to give it back in tax cuts, what difference does it matter if it's the state or federal government. My points would still apply and you would still be wrong.

    There's no Constitutional obligation (none / 0) (#62)
    by NoviDemocrat on Thu Aug 30, 2007 at 10:40:36 AM EST
    to return surplus funds to taxpayers. Whether its called a "rainy day fund" or the GWB slush fund (if he could run a surplus), the Federal government isn't required to return "excess" funds to taxpayers. If you want to claim otherwise, you better back it up with a citation.

    What's wrong JG (none / 0) (#64)
    by NoviDemocrat on Thu Aug 30, 2007 at 12:21:41 PM EST
    can't provide any evidence for your claim that the federal government is required to return excess funds to taxpayers through a tax cut? No evidence for your claim that the federal government can't keep those surplus funds? I know you've been busted when you start throwing out the insults.

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