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    Who are the NERD fund donors Mr Snyder?

    Raise the curtain.

    On Blogs, Senate Majority Leaders and Censorship


    By Nick, Section News
    Posted on Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 11:18:05 AM EST
    Tags: (all tags)

    There's quite a stink in Lansing these past couple of days over a move by Senate Majority Leader Mike Bishop's office to block access to a certain lefty blog on all Senate computers.

    Story goes there was an inordinate amount of time being spent by a staffer or two on the Dem side of the aisle checking out the site and some concern, even, that one of them was blogging under an assumed name while on the clock.  Bishop's top staffer, Matt Miner then moved to block access to the blog in question, leaving open access to other leading blogs including RightMichigan.com and Michigan Liberal.

    If you want the MSM account, you can check it out at the FREEP, LSJ, the Jackson Citizen Patriot... and of course it's all over MIRS and Gongwer.

    To hear Bishop's office tell the story this is about time spent blogging and reading "overtly political" material on the taxpayers' time.  And that's an argument I'd typically be sympathetic to.  No one wants public employees politicking on the clock.

    I'm just not so sure that argument holds much water this time out.  Had a ban been installed immediately targeting the leading political blogs in the state on all sides of the ideological spectrum they might have a case.  Not a good one, mind you, but a case nonetheless.

    Instead, by targeting one blog in particular, and a blog that daily takes the Majority Leader's office to task Bishop hasn't just lost the moral high ground.  He's clearly and openly in the wrong.

    The Constitution isn't some silly little thing we can just toss aside or brush under the rug.  You can go ahead and bookmark the page, just remember to always use the quote in context... Blogging for Michigan is right.

    The Majority Leader's office, by their statements and actions are engaged in political censorship and it must stop.  Open access to blogs on all sides of the aisle should be granted on the Senate servers immediately.

    < Senate Republicans Block Access to Left-Leaning Website | Blaming others... again >


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    Display: Sort:
    Wow. We agree. Scary (none / 0) (#1)
    by Communications Guru on Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 12:10:40 PM EST
    Wow. I actually agree with you. Thank you. The First Amendment is a right I hold dear, and I think it's the first one for a reason. Bishop's office has also said other blogs would most likely be blocked. I can promise you if this blog was ever blocked by the Senate or the House Dems in retaliation I would be screaming as long and as loud as I am now.

    Nah, maybe a tough day to be a Republican (none / 0) (#3)
    by Nick on Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 01:03:45 PM EST
    but it's never tough to be conservative.

    They've lost their way on this one... we'll try to get them back on track.

    On the taxpayers dime? (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by apackof2 on Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 03:39:17 PM EST
    Open access to blogs on all sides of the aisle should be granted on the Senate servers immediately.

    I disagree.

    Access should be limited to what is needed to do the job.

    "Surfing the 'Net" while on the taxpayers dime is a no no

    Reality check (none / 0) (#5)
    by Qman on Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 03:52:26 PM EST
    apackof2,
    Everything you posted is accurate.

    In reality, however, Bishop's acts interfere with accomplishing meaningful reform. His intellect and right to lead have to be called into question with this shortsighted political move. I'm a Conservative who is focused on RESULTS. His stunt has brought more exposure to the banned website than they would ever accomplish otherwise. The focus the next few days will now be a pissing contest instead of confronting the MEA on healthcare and pensions and looking at significant cost savings within Corrections.

    Thank God that Conservative sites like www.rightmichigan.com and the Mackinaw Center have reamed him today. Now that I think about it, our legislators on both sides of the aisle should spend MORE time on the web blogs of all sides gathering a concensus instead of following their ineffective Leaders.

    Close case (3.00 / 2) (#7)
    by chetly on Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 04:17:27 PM EST
    As I told Christine on her blog, this is a "close case".  I've also told Christine I'm open to changing my mind on this issue as facts develop.  I hope you are too.  Here's the best

    The rhetoric of BFM makes it seem otherwise (that this isn't a "close call"), but BFM is the only blog censored.  BFM itself censors ALL CONSERVATIVE VIEWPOINTS.  Explicitly and clearly, in its mission statement.  It has executed that policy at least once (myself).  BFM calls itself a "managed community" of progressives.  Both BFM and ML have defended their censorship and exclusionary policies on the grounds of "private property" and "First Amendment ASSOCIATIONAL rights" (that other clause of the FA).  The blocking of BFM began shortly before or shortly after Senator Schauer and other Senators were expected to have a series of posts on BFM. This forced Schauer and Deb Cherry to post to BFM from private computers (though it didn't stop them).  While at first glance this starts down the road of a censorial action - let's consider that.  If Schauer had been allowed to use Senate resources to enter this quasi-private political organizing community, a whole category of other people would have been censored and had their tax money used for exclusive purposes.  (Quasi-private, because its like a glass room, I can see into but I'm locked out of it)  Conservatives citizens, and even conservative Senators, are not allowed to post on BFM.  So use of BFM is a one-directional, completely political forum.  This is the classic definition of what campaign finance and state ethics laws prohibit use of state money for.  Whether those laws violate the First Amendment may indeed be an active question, but it no doubt is what Miner could be thinking of when he refers to erring on the side of ethics.  In the converse, a second angle to the legal (and moral) defense of the action is that government, ever since the 1964 Civil Rights Act, has held to the doctrine that it doesn't recognize or carry out "restrictive covenants".  It does this in a "narrowly tailored" way - you still have an associational right to discriminate on race PRIVATELY in your own home and personal life, but as soon as you step outside it and engage in "commerce", you're subject to the CRA.  Not only is it hypocritical for BFM to cry censorship when it is itself a censor - its censorship has moved its speech from the public soapbox to the protections of the private domain.  The Government has no obligation to rebroadcast such speech.  BFM wants to have it both ways.  If BFM changed its policy, I'd change my position to be solidly on its side, notably because an open BFM is neither in the private sphere nor is it abusive to taxpayer interests since ALL taxpayers can cheer or jeer Senator Schauer and Senator Cherry's speech.  If Schauer steps out onto the Capitol steps and speaks, he can not only be seen on TV (if they pick it up), he can be cheered by progressives standing there, or jeered by conservatives standing there.  BFM allows only cheering and prohibits jeering - its NOT A PUBLIC FORUM.

    On the other hand, Miner's statements to Gongwer or MIRS about Michigan Liberal "not saying bad things," are plain stupid and harm his case enormously.  If that's the reason, the motivation is a violation of the spirit of the First Amendment (though my defense can still be raised and still applies as the taxpayer interest existed whether Miner saw it or not).

    Note, under this doctrine, blocking ML would be legal also, but not any other blog that had open access rules.


    Chetly Zarko
    Outside Lansing & Oakland Politics

    Hey chet (1.00 / 1) (#8)
    by NoviDemocrat on Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 05:09:56 PM EST
    You ever here of content-based speech restrictions? That's where the person doing the censoring does so because they don't like the message? It's a big no-no and the courts generally only in very narrowly defined situations. Bishop and Co. were clearly blocking content based entirely on the content of the site and the fact that they allowed other sites of a similar character to be unblocked proves it.
    The nature of BFM is irrelevent and your long-winded exposition on its nature is nothing more than blowing smoke.

    • Content. by chetly, 08/07/2007 06:12:50 PM EST (5.00 / 1)
    Mistake to ban blogs (none / 0) (#10)
    by leondrolet on Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 06:46:16 PM EST
    Senator Bishop and his staff should just admit they made a mistake and un-ban the liberal blog. The ban is a distraction and bad public relations move.

    More than that, however, blogs can be a good way of tracking down information. When I was in the state House, I frequently researched state issues using google to find sources, but also did blog searches to track down information.

    Liberal, conservative, libertarian and even communist blogs (hi, all you BAMN members) often link to newspaper articles or studies that I would have otherwise missed.

    Blogging For Michigan may be liberal mush, it may be unfair, it may even mislead. But it should NOT be banned by a government department that has employees that need information about state government. Senate employees may need to find a nugget of valuable info buried in the pile of crap that is BFM.

    • Mistake by chetly, 08/07/2007 08:30:22 PM EST (none / 0)
    oh, yeah, one more thing... (none / 0) (#11)
    by leondrolet on Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 06:54:20 PM EST
    I agree with Chet that the Miner comment about MI Liberal "not saying bad things" was really bad.

    But BFM, ML and RightMichigan are completely private property and can set whatever censoring policy they damn-well please. If any want to ban my posts, that is totally their right and I respect it.

    The ban's been lifted... (none / 0) (#12)
    by Nick on Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 06:57:34 PM EST
    Nick, (none / 0) (#14)
    by Christine on Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 07:38:46 PM EST
    Respect.

    • Hahahaha... by Nick, 08/07/2007 07:55:05 PM EST (none / 0)
    Sorry Nic (none / 0) (#17)
    by Mark Adams on Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 11:03:17 PM EST
    Can't agree with you on this. Though I am all for free speech, Washington (in it's own way) is trying to reviving the Fairness Doctrine. And their reasoning... well the liberal left just can't seem to get a successful talk radio program going on the airwaves, so if they can't, why should the Conservatives, is what it boils down to.
    So IF they get their way, would you change your opinion on all this?

    But most importantly, as with any one of us, at work you should and can be regulated from sites that don't pertain to your job at hand.
    Both sides of the isle should be regulated from such 'None job related surfing' and save it for your time, not "Our Time".
    As with my job, being Management, I am barred from checking such things as my personal email.

    The Liberal Left is poison to America, and I think Bishop understands this.

    Just my two cents.


    If you believe that (1.00 / 1) (#19)
    by NoviDemocrat on Tue Aug 07, 2007 at 11:22:05 PM EST
    than Bishop's position would have only made sense if he had banned all political blogs. Chet's smoke-blowing aside, there's nothing different between BFM and RightMichigan. The fact that one is claimed to be "private" and the other "public", whether those distinctions are accurate or not, are irrelevent to any First Amendment analysis. Your First Amendment rights don't end when you exit the public sphere and that's even more true in the Internet age.

    Chet: Again, I don't know where you got your ideas about the First Amendment issues involved but if this is legal analysis, I'll wait for the lawyers to chime in. I'll grant that there may be some legal issue with campaigning on the state dime although I don't see that implicated here. But the rest of what your analysis seems to have been pulled out of thin air. Try again.

    Thanks, Nick. (1.00 / 1) (#20)
    by djtyg on Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 12:06:43 AM EST
    You gave me an excuse to sign up here, just so I could say thanks.:)

    Chetly, your hypocrisy is rank.  You complain about supposed censorship at BFM, but I never have seen you complain about the conservative on right wing blogs such as RM, The Drudge Report, or others.

    I don't complain about it because I know both sides want to get their message out there, and that's fine.  But don't be playing the moral high ground by accusing people who don't agree with your politics of censorship.  Your real problem is with our politics, not our methods.

    Anyway, thanks to Nick and others here for backing us.  I promise you if the Dems try it against you we'll go after them as well.

    A lot of smoke.... where's the fire? (none / 0) (#21)
    by jrfoleyjr on Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 06:03:06 AM EST
    This would hardly get attention if commited by the Dems.

    Its politics as usual as I see it.

    Does that stop anyone from going out to the nearest internet cafe? Hmmm not that I noticed.

    So it IS only a LOCAL block OUTGOING and Corrigan is not in a gulag. She says that she gets her hot intel from the Senate Journals. Has she been blocked from this acccess? Has email been blocked or spam filtered? Or is someone on a senate staff politicing on the time clock?

    But....but...but Corrigan has been rendered deaf and dumb (have you seen the assinine picture [tape over eyes and mouth and is blocking her own ears so she cant hear] on her site?) by the Senate having instituted a direct access block outgoing from the senate. Yup yup yup...she has been rendered to Helen Keller status by this, totally out of touch with the world! Give me a break!

    So where's the beef?

    DJTYG... he doesn't complain about censorship here (none / 0) (#22)
    by Nick on Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 07:36:51 AM EST
    because, as you can see from our boards, we don't delete differing points of view.  

    But thanks for stopping by.

    --Nick

    The beef (none / 0) (#23)
    by NoviDemocrat on Wed Aug 08, 2007 at 09:13:35 AM EST
    is that a government official (Senator Bishop) is engaging in selective censorship blocking access to a particular web site because he doesn't like its content. If Bishop banned all copies of the Free Press from Senate offices because it's too liberal, would you be OK with that?

    Fair enough, Nick.... (none / 0) (#24)
    by djtyg on Thu Aug 09, 2007 at 12:59:07 AM EST
    I should've used RedState as an example.

    Even so, I doubt I'll be able to post about universal healthcare on this blog anytime soon.:)

    Not that it bothers me any, we got our own blogs for that.  Just making the point that Chetly is more angry at us for being a liberal blog than anything else.

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